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All Stories Must Die. All Stories Must Serve. — 7 Comments

  1. Pingback:Is the Future of Fantasy Fifty Shades of Gray? | Idyll Conversation

  2. Black and white fantasy clearly is not dead; look no further than Star Wars and LotR, the two biggest fantasy franchises of the day. Lucas didn’t allow for shades of grey with the Dark Side of the Force, anymore than Tolkien allowed for orcs that might be decent people.

    Interestingly (to me, anyhow), there’s a fairly clear parallel there. Star Wars is to Star Trek as LotR is to Game of Thrones. We start with a black and white morality and a story of epic scale, and move to a grey and uncertain morality full of confusion on a more personal scale. That is to say, it’s more personal because instead of merely having the camera follow the hero, we learn their thoughts and intentions and watch them struggle with difficult moral choices.

    Aerys didn’t burn Lyanna Stark to death though; minor quibble in your timeline (step #2). Lyanna Stark died in her “bed of blood” in the Tower of Joy, after Eddard and Howland Reed and their companions took the tower by force, slaying the Sword of the Morning and his two companions. Lyanna forced Ned to make a promise to her as she lay dying, which he did. This was of course just prior to Ned Stark’s return home, bearing the infant Jon Snow, whom he claimed as his own. Hint hint hint Rhaegar and Lyanna hint hint hint.

    You’re probably thinking of Lord Rickard Stark, Ned’s father (and Lyanna’s, and Brandon’s). After Prince Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, her eldest brother Brandon went to demand that Prince Rhaegar “come out and die”. The Mad King didn’t take this too well and demanded that Lord Rickard Stark come to King’s Landing. Rickon demanded trial by combat, but the champion the Mad King chose was fire. Lord Rickon was suspended in his armor and roasted slowly while was forced to watch. Brandon was placed in a noose that tightened as he struggled to reach a sword with which to free his father, and he died as well.

    Um. I’ve been kinda into A Song of Ice and Fire lately as well. I’m sure it’s not obvious though. 😉

    • I didn’t know that about Jon Snow. Is it from the fifth book? I’ve only read the first four — given the number of cliffhangers at the end of the fourth and the delay of the fifth, I decided I wouldn’t touch the books again until the series was complete.

      As I recalled, Aerys killed her, which was the key point even if it wasn’t by fire. Did Aerys not kill her then? Because I thought that was what sent Robert over the edge. If I have that all wrong, how would you re-word step #2 to make it fit the premise, assuming this could be done without ruining the premise.

      After all, I could be wrong. 🙂

      • The hints about Jon’s true parentage are dropped throughout the series, starting with the first book. Little is known about Lyanna’s death likewise, but that’s also hinted at from the first book onwards. None of what I’ve written or am about to write is specific to book 5, so I’m not spoiling anything new; just pointing out what’s gone before. Most of this actually comes from A Game of Thrones; check out Eddard’s chapters, especially 4, 35, and 39.

        What is known:

        * Prince Rhaegar won the tourney at Harrenhal. Rhaegar chose Lyanna as his Queen of Love and Beauty, although Rhaegar’s wife was also present. She was crowned with blue roses.
        * Prince Rhaegar took Lyanna from her family at some point shortly after the tourney. He was aided by Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent, both prominent members of the Kingsguard.
        * According to Robert Baratheon, Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna. According to Barristan Selmy and Viserys Targaryen, Rhaegar loved Lyanna.
        * Lyanna’s elder brother Brandon was on his way to Riverrun to wed Catelyn Tully when he heard the news. Brandon Stark went to King’s Landing to protest the apparent kidnapping of his sister. He went to the Red Keep and yelled for Rhaegar to “Come out and die”.
        * Aerys killed Brandon and his father, Rickard Stark. Well, tortured to death, killed, it’s a matter of semantics. It wasn’t pleasant anyhow. Aerys then called for Robert Baratheon and Eddark Stark to come to King’s Landing, also to be killed.
        * This prompted Robert to rebel against the crown. The rebellion was eventually successful, ending with Rhaegar’s death at Robert’s hand. All Targaryens were slain or driven from Westeros (except one in the Night’s Watch).
        * After the rebellion, Ned and his companions went to the Tower of Joy, where Rhaegar had kept Lyanna since her abduction. Ned found her dying in “her bed of blood”. Lyanna forced Ned to make her some promise as yet undisclosed.
        * Ned returned home from the Tower of Joy with the infant Jon Snow, whom he claimed was his own bastard born during the rebellion. Ned is very evasive about Jon’s mother and will not even tell his best friend Robert about her.
        * Lyanna was buried in the crypts at Winterfell, and her statue was adorned with blue roses.

        What is very likely to be true:

        * Lyanna died from complications after giving birth. Nobody else was in the Tower but her, and there were three members of the Kingsguard protecting her, none of whom would harm her. Ned and his companions obviously would not have harmed her.
        * Rhaegar and Lyanna had a son. Lyanna was worried that the infant would be slain, due to its Targaryen blood. She made Ned promise to raise the boy as his own bastard. Jon is thus half Targaryen, and is Dany’s nephew. Targaryen family trees get a bit muddled anyhow. Note that Gerold Hightower, the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, was there along with two other members of the Kingsguard. These mighty warriors missed all the battles in Robert’s Rebellion because they were tasked with guarding Lyanna. That seems VERY odd if Lyanna is only Rhaegar’s mistress, but makes perfect sense if Lyanna is pregnant with the Prince’s child.

        So… step two is a bit complex, as it covers a lot of plot development. You could accurately word it as follows:

        * The evil tyrant’s son kidnaps the fiancee of the brave knight; she is also the sister of the knight’s honorable best friend. The evil tyrant slays the father and brother of the honorable knight, then demands that the brave knight and the honorable knight also die.

        It’s accurate but reads like crap. Sigh. Well, you get the point.

        • I’m not surprised that I didn’t recall those details. It’s been years since I read as much as I have. Thank you for pointing them out though. I always enjoy seeing the way a story comes together. And as for point two rewritten – hey, it gets the point across!

          It’s good to hear from you, by the way. You should come visit and see the house up here in Portland. It’s not far from Powell’s…

  3. While conceptually I like the idea of hearing the story that follows “happily ever after”, I find that personally I have a harder time getting into these kinds of morally grey stories. They can be interesting as people, but there comes a point when I start to wonder do I really want to spend any more time with them? I mean there are morally suspect people in the real world that I’d just as soon not stay in the same room with any longer than absolutely necessary, so willingly subjecting myself to an entire cast of morally grey characters in my leisure time doesn’t always work for me.

    Also, particularly with “Game of Thrones”, the author seems to take great delight in killing off the few characters that I do like or have emotionally invested in.

    ps. given your interest in ’tilting at windmills’, I encourage you to pop by my site at some point… since it’s called Tilted Windmills. 🙂

    • That’s always the trick with antiheroes: making them compelling enough that readers keep reading even if they don’t personally like the characters. I enjoy the approach of complex characters (in general, not a statement about ASoIaF) with conflicting goals as a different story direction than a straight up, good-vs.-evil throw down. Sso in that sense I find morally gray stories interesting. But they can get tiresome if the author doesn’t get the balance right.

      Have you read any Joe Abercrombe? He’s in my to-read pile.

      (And I’ll check out your site tonight!)

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